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Eric

DAS 1000 Shares as Default Issue [RESOLVED]

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On 5/26/2020 at 5:06 PM, RTrader said:

If you scalp like this you should be trading futures anyway, not stocks. I used to have DAS with IB, and IB's API on other platforms. The API, whether FIXAPI or anything else, all the same! Total piece of junk. My fun issue with DAS and IB was that I would end up in a short position randomly, from an order that I cancelled in DAS minutes or hours earlier, but it ended up not being cancelled in IB's system. I would find out later on, when I would be short some amount of shares in a stock I traded earlier in the day! It certainly made me lose all confidence in the situation so I moved on and never looked back.

I have seen something like this sporadically...it's cost me a few dollars here and there but not really a huge problem except that it did kinda freak me out when I opened DAS in the pre market to see that I was in a position that I had tried to close shortly before the market close.

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Sorry for your story.

It seems that DAS has a bug in its SwitchTWnd command.

I have reported it in previous post, but seems it's not attended enough.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Eric said:

@vic Lightspeed would charge me 6.50% margin interest, which would break my entire playbook.

This is compared to 0.75% margin interest at CenterPoint Securities.

For example, I like to hold bond ETFs in excess of my account value and collect 3% yields on them. With a margin interest rate of 0.75% I can still collect about 2% arbitrage on that. But with 6.5% interest I would be forced to outperform that extra cost per dollar invested just to break even. Can't see any reason to do that when I'd just be using Sterling Trader anyway as the software interface, while also getting direct access and the largest supply of stocks available for shorting.

I don't pay 6.5% margin interest, if you do volume nobody beats LS you have to talk to them. 

Sterling merged with Lightspeed fyi 🙂 

 

 

 

Edited by vic

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Posted (edited)

i wonder how does your order preset screen look like in DAS. and i wonder how it would process the order if you had automatic stop order attached.

scary stuff though

Edited by peterB
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@Abiel I've decided to give DAS/IB a second chance because I found a workaround that will be able to prevent this glitch. As long as I manually enter 100 as a share value into the montage, it shouldn't be misfiring on every 40 or so of my orders and adding that extra zero. CenterPoint Securities has not responded to my inquiry yet, but they apparently have no native way to report on or manage delta dollars like IB does, which is my favorite feature and lets me hedge with options knowing the exact realtime balance. CenterPoint has an extra service for this which they call their Risk Manager/Portfolio Margin Solution, but they charge 2k/month for this when delta dollars is free on IB and native to the Portfolio tab, so long as you select it for a column.

Really bothers me though that I can't do OCO orders with DAS using a trailing stop. Sterling Trader lets you do that by holding down the control button to select a batch of orders, and then right clicking to assign them as an OCO group.

 

@peterB I have about 17 video-recorded examples of Interactive Brokers natively mixing up the automatically [attached] stop loss and profit targets, suddenly giving them all buy instead or sell or vice versa until I restart it. I no longer use those kind of orders with them. Was a year ago but no reason for me to start trusting them with that. They say that it intelligently selects the right direction, and it would for a while, but once it got confused it would do that to every single new order. Forced me to close and reopen IB sometimes over 12 times a day.

 

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@Abiel @Robert H @Andrew Aziz A moderator can now edit the topic of this thread to: DAS 1000 Shares as Default Issue [RESOLVED]

You may also edit in this update:

UPDATE: I gave DAS another chance and found the root cause. By clicking on Setup > Order Templates, I found the Global Default Order Configuration. On it was a default order for 1,000 shares...

I've never seen this interface and had to dig really hard to find it. What has been happening is that every time I entered in a new symbol, these parameters were getting fed into the montage. I never noticed this before because MOST of the time my hotkeys overrode this. However, on occasions, the hotkey would fail to override this very dangerous shares default. This was on a new computer with a fresh image of Windows and DAS install for version 5.5.0.3. To DAS Trader, I lost over 10 thousand dollars because of this repeatedly happening, and even liquidated all of my mutual funds in an attempt to go to another brokers/service before giving this a final chance. Not the end of the world for me, as it was only a couple weeks or so worth of trading progress directly lost over this configuration issue intercepting my hotkey instructions, but this is a very serious problem and potential liability. I don't know how this ended up being a 1,000 share default, but I don't trade with that kind of size and this is really dangerous.

Clearly, the hotkey system is not infallible at guarding against this default, as the same thing happened to me 5 times in one day according to my Trades log. This could blow up a 30k account in less than 5 minutes if trading something like NFLX. Please look into why I ended up with this as a default, and consider something safer as a default, such as 100 shares or even 10.

 

583987933_DASconfigissue-globaldefaultorderconfig1000shares-2020-05-29_16-40-34.png.49456b8918f433bdcc7ca95e3b6db010.png

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exactly what i thought by the "order preset screen"

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Very very happy a work around has been found. BUT it is a bug in the app, as it is not following normal logical.  Based on the information a pattern after every 40+ trades, is being reported.

So it does need investigation by DAS around the original prob with the knowledge of tht error pattern and the temp solution.

Good work to ALL who contributed to temp solution.

 

 

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@Eric DAS has a bug in the SwitchTWnd command, which would randomly ignore its following commands, like setting the share size.

Not too many people issue the SwitchTWnd command before the sending orders, so this bug is not well recognized in this community.

You can easily verify this bug with the following scripts. You'll find the share size is not changed 100% of the times in the Montage window.

SwitchTWnd;Share=Pos*0.5

I think you can try to claim your losses from DAS. Good luck!

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@Alastair Not sure if you saw, but I did find a permanent solution on a user-to-user basis by changing the Shares value in the Global Default Order Configuration.

But this does not do anything for hapless new users unaware of this obscure template settings panel. The simple fix is to give everyone a safe number of default shares. No deep work on the engine required. Hope this was reported up the chain!

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1 hour ago, Abiel said:

Every new live trader ask about this and is pointed to our DAS FAQ in the forums.

Then that only furthers my point about how unintuitive it is if everyone becomes confused about this.

Also, this order template interface setting was too obscure for even DAS Trader support to be aware of when I was in their live chat and they were lecturing me about how this was not a software problem but entirely my own fault because of the failure of my hotkey syntax. It turns out that it was not.

As someone who has been using DAS Trader for over a year, I assumed that the montage switching to the sim account (every time I entered in a new symbol) was a safety mechanism against hotkeys unintentially being firing off when using other apps on the same computer. Such a safety mechanism would logically be an attractive feature if using the SwitchTWnd command, which prepares the montage for a hotkey command, even if the montage is not selected.

While digging through areas of the menu, in order searching for the root cause of this logic error that was making me lose thousands of dollars repeatedly, I finally found it. If everyone has 1,000 shares like this by default, (and this wasn’t something that got messed up in just my account somehow), then there could end up being a lot of seriously upset people. 

I have actually written an academic paper that involved hotkey scripting, which won an award at my university. It was hundreds of pages long, and with an appendix mapping out over 300 DAS Trader hotkeys, so I’m not exactly brand new to this application or generally lacking in due diligence. 

It is easily considered obscure if an alien and nonessential part of the core experience of the application is something that causes the hotkeys to fail to place orders properly, and is in conflict with how they were instructed to do so. 

It’s not ok to assume that paying customers of an application are to blame for losing thousands of dollars because they did not dig through an FAQ and find this obscure detail, when this FAQ wasn’t even in any forum directly related to the core product. I have spent many solid hours on these forums trying to learn about DAS and these hotkeys, and yet I never saw any reference to it. 

And I don’t believe that any trader should be faulted for losing money over this extremely dangerous default configuration just because it is addressed somewhere on a private community’s forum. This is especially true when neither the particular hazard is articulated nor does the hotkey have a programmed ability to stop this.

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Eric, that setting is in the 2012 DAS Trader Pro User Manual:

Quote

SET A DEFAULT ACCOUNT
Go to “Setup” on the menu bar, select “Order Templates”. Select the exchanges you trade on
from the drop down menu following “Exchange.” Then select your account from the drop
down menu following “Account”. Then you can set your default number of shares, your
preferred Route, AON/ANY and Time in Force settings at the other boxes or drop down menus.
Make sure you set your default for each exchange you trade on. Click OK when you are
satisfied with the new changes

 

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So then DAS Trader really does have 1,000 shares as a default and yet has no concern about the dangers that this poses to their customers, got it. What’s funny though is I don’t see any comments in the “2012 user manual” about the hotkeys randomly failing to do their job at overriding this global default setting for shares.6E597F0A-ABAC-4E1E-8D3E-5417CADCBDA1.thumb.png.3cca99dd522c8e591cbfea80f50aac81.png

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Eric, easy way to test it.....change default to 99 or 98......and see if the error continues as 1000.  If the current assumption is valid u should get 99/98 not 1000 order.....and its close to ur normal trade amt so financially its not big loss/profit.

If is not a bug is lack of documentation for Switch command.

Maybe when u use Switch to Window it defaults all values.....also I have a DEFAULT montage layouts saved which I use when duplicating a window.  So it could be taking values from either of those two defaults.

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