CMEG TIF is WRONG

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

I can't find anyone complaining about this issue, but I certainly am (to CMEG).

According to the Das user manual, TIF Day is for market hours only while DAY+ covers market plus extended trading hours (i.e., premarket and after hours). That is both logical and how every broker I've ever used applied TIF. But CMEG applies Das TIF as such: Day for premarket and market, Day+ for after hours. That is illogical and wrong. It means needing a duplicate set of hotkeys depending on when you're trading. (What's more, I don't even think CMEG's description of how their TIF works is correct; I use Day+ during regular market hours all the time...and am almost certain I've had to switch to Day to close out a trade AH...it's almost as if they've got the TIFs backwards). 

Anyway, I'm trying to get CMEG to contact Das and fix this problem. Just wanted to let anyone else know who's as frustrated as I. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by StephenMeowkmus

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

Follow up. This just happened and I'm furious.

CMEG has made abundantly clear to me that DAY+ TIF is for AH, and DAY is for PM and market hours. I tried to close a position AH using my hotkeys and the montage, but every single time it was cancelled without explanation. I was using DAY+, of course. Finally, as a last-ditch attempt, I tried using the DAY TIF (even though it's after hours). That order went through immediately. Not only was this terrifying but also exactly opposite what CMEG has told me previously. And it cost me money.

Has nobody else experienced this issue with CMEG?

[Trade4Exp 2]

I don't use CMEG but definitely I'll say CMEG should take care of this issue. 

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

16 hours ago, peterB said:

if you can prove to CMEG that you have been sending the correct order (from DAS logs) and they did not accept it they will pay you back your lost money. i did that once without any hassle

and for future reference this is from DAS manual:

so if it does not work as it is supposed to work you should report to DAS directly

Thanks, Peter. I'm quite familiar with the page you screenshotted. In fact, I've sent the same screenshot to CMEG in the past. What they claim is their version of DAS applies TIF as I described in my original post (which is a claim I've also proven untrue). I have spoken to Das support over chat, and implored CMEG to contact DAS to have this issue resolved. And yes, I can easily prove correct order type from the DAS logs.

 

Below are a few examples of email exchanges I've had with CMEG. Curious to know what you or anyone else thinks. 

I'll start with the most recent and follow up with the exact language they have used previously re: TIF (I hope these screenshots present in the correct order):

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by StephenMeowkmus

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

And here is their language (and mine) from previous communications:

Edited October 30, 2021 by StephenMeowkmus

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

3 minutes ago, StephenMeowkmus said:

And here is there language (and mine) from previous communications:

And just a few more (this is totally unorganized bc I need to get ready for Halloween. But I'll copy and paste.

 

ME: 

Quote

Hi CMEG team,

Can you please help me understand why my premarket orders won’t go through? I’m not getting an error/rejection message. Just cancelled immediately. And the lost opportunities are very frustrating and costly.
 

CMEG:

Quote

Thank you for reaching out to us.

You will need to utilize the DAY Tif type during pre-market and market hours and DAY+ during the after-hours.

Let us know if this works for you.
 

ME: 

Quote

Thanks for the quick response. What you are telling me is different from the Das Trader User Manual (see screenshot). Please advise which is correct. I don’t want to try it out…I’d like to know beforehand.
 

CMEG:

Quote

Yes, in order to trade successfully during the pre-market and market hours, you will need to utilize the DAY Tif type. DAY+ needs to be utilized for the after-hours period.

ANYWAY...hopefully anyone reading this gets the idea. Clearly, I'm frustrated. 
 

[zulkafil 38]

55 minutes ago, StephenMeowkmus said:

ANYWAY...hopefully anyone reading this gets the idea. Clearly, I'm frustrated.

Hello Stephen, 

Completely agreed with you.  For sure this situation with TIF/CMEG is not a good experience. I feel really bad for your experience and frustration. Hopefully you will get a solution soon from CMEG/DAS.

Best of luck.

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

21 hours ago, zulkafil said:

Best of luck.

Thanks @zulkafil. Still awaiting a response from CMEG. And hoping my next update will be a positive one. 
 

I just fail to understand why they would treat broken TIF as a non-critical issue. 

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

Just received an update from CMEG. I'm so taken aback by their response that I need to better collect my thought before I call them to discuss over the phone.

Am I wrong, or is this no small issue? Because the way I see it, they have essentially said this: "Ideally TIF works. But it doesn't." 

It's like telling me, "Ideally a Sell Order will sell. But in rare instances, it may not work. In those cases, try placing a Buy Order."

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

52 minutes ago, peterB said:

i found meanwhile this in some other docs of DAS

Yes, I'm quite familiar with how DAS is supposed to work (at least TIF and all other functionality relevant to my trading style). I'm dumbfounded by CMEG, though. 

I'm glad this issue may be gaining some traction at BBT. Perhaps it may spur CMEG to address and solve it rather than ignore it. 

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

I have now tried calling CMEG customer service three times. The first time (yesterday) I waited on hold until they eventually disconnected the call. The second time (also yesterday) I waited on hold until someone picked up. I asked to speak with a representative familiar with the Das Trader platform (and hopefully active trading). While waiting to be transferred, I was again disconnected. 

Just tried again, and after waiting on hold for nearly 20 minutes, I decided to leave a message asking them to call me (I also asked this of them in an email yesterday, but no response). 

So on top of everything else, I'm paying international rates for absent customer service. Unbelievable. 

[zulkafil 38]

8 minutes ago, StephenMeowkmus said:

I have now tried calling CMEG customer service three times. The first time (yesterday) I waited on hold until they eventually disconnected the call. The second time (also yesterday) I waited on hold until someone picked up. I asked to speak with a representative familiar with the Das Trader platform (and hopefully active trading). While waiting to be transferred, I was again disconnected. 

Just tried again, and after waiting on hold for nearly 20 minutes, I decided to leave a message asking them to call me (I also asked this of them in an email yesterday, but no response). 

So on top of everything else, I'm paying international rates for absent customer service. Unbelievable. 

Stephen,

I am regularly following your post about the DAS/TIF issue and CMEG.  I talked to TDA and IB several times. After reading your recent post about CMEG customer support, I can only say "How they can do this to a customer?" Stephen, my suggestion is if possible, please switch your broker in the future.

Best of luck.

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

1 minute ago, zulkafil said:

Stephen,

I am regularly following your post about the DAS/TIF issue and CMEG.  I talked to TDA and IB several times. After reading your recent post about CMEG customer support, I can only say "How they can do this to a customer?" Stephen, my suggestion is if possible, please switch your broker in the future.

Best of luck.

Thanks for taking notice, zulkafil. I've only ever had positive experiences with TDA customer service (and schwab, and others). CMEG is baffling. In fact, the first line of my most recent email to them was this: "Is trying to obtain customer service a lost cause?"

My relationship with CMEG is now very close to ending. If they can fix TIF by working with DAS (and return my loss sustained due to faulty TIF), I'll give them another shot. Otherwise, I'll need to cough up the extra dough to bypass PDT.

I love DAS, and I also love commission-free trading. Have you ever tried connecting DAS to TDA? Can't find much info beyond those who experienced poor fills/executions. But I'm wondering if the integration is better-sorted out now. 

[zulkafil 38]

37 minutes ago, StephenMeowkmus said:

Have you ever tried connecting DAS to TDA?

I tried DAS with TDA.  I have not had any issues at all. Faster execution won't be an issue if someone doesn't trade at the market open and honestly I never trade at the market open. I prefer IB over TDA because of IB shortlist.

TDA free commissions does not apply to OTC.

[StephenMeowkmus 2]

54 minutes ago, zulkafil said:

I tried DAS with TDA.  I have not had any issues at all. Faster execution won't be an issue if someone doesn't trade at the market open and honestly I never trade at the market open.

Thanks, that's good to know. I don't typically trade at open either. And yes, I know TDA charges 6.95 per OTC ticket(why I opened a schwab acct, but I generally don't trade OTC anymore). 

I'll check IB again. Last time I researched them, the commissions seemed slightly higher than (or at least no better than) CMEG's. So I figured just toss $10K into CMEG and take advantage of the 6:1 leverage. But perhaps I should take another look. CMEG is a flat $2.95 per ticket plus ECN and other fees. With larger share sizes on inexpensive securities, that seemed like a decent deal, and less than IB. But I'll revisit the IB comm schedule.