Could ORB strategy be a beginners 1st?

[MattfromNZ 55]

2 hours ago, Alastair said:

Not sure how comfortable u r with TAPE READING.

Here is a thread about Tape Reading (L2 and T&S) which I think could help ur learning process. Feedback from other readers was positive.

https://forums.bearbulltraders.com/topic/1916-bookmap-for-learning-level-2-and-ts/?tab=comments#comment-14463

This is just one of the components required/would be helpful in ur trading journey.

Haven't started tape reading yet, but it is on the list of things to do once I have time. Thankyou for the link I will definitely check that out soon. I will be starting the 3 month simulator DAS subscription: do you know if that will give me access to level 2 data, or is that something that has to come from my broker?

[Kenneth Armenta 3]

If time is an issue, I would learn the 5-min ORB. Carlos taught a very good class on it. Here's the link

https://bearbulltraders.com/course/strategy/lesson/abcds-orbs-2/topic/trading-a-5-minute-orb-2/

In my opinion, the 1-min ORB is too dangerous for beginners, the 5 min can be fast too, but very effective when practiced and having a strong foundation on how everything else works. I tossed my other strategies, and strictly trade 5 min ORBS. I wish I would of started with them since the beginning. I've been having a high success rate with it. Good Luck on what you decide to do.

[MattfromNZ 55]

17 hours ago, Kenneth Armenta said:

If time is an issue, I would learn the 5-min ORB. Carlos taught a very good class on it. Here's the link

https://bearbulltraders.com/course/strategy/lesson/abcds-orbs-2/topic/trading-a-5-minute-orb-2/

In my opinion, the 1-min ORB is too dangerous for beginners, the 5 min can be fast too, but very effective when practiced and having a strong foundation on how everything else works. I tossed my other strategies, and strictly trade 5 min ORBS. I wish I would of started with them since the beginning. I've been having a high success rate with it. Good Luck on what you decide to do.

Thanks for the advice Kenneth, and congratulations on your success with the 5-min ORB!

[Kenneth Armenta 3]

29 minutes ago, MattfromNZ said:

Thanks for the advice Kenneth, and congratulations on your success with the 5-min ORB!

Thank you!

[Adam Lewis 64]

I'm sort of in a similar situation, trading in Vietnam and with the market opening at 9.30pm local time and needing to be up for work before 6am every day and therefore needing to get to bed, I really don't want to trade beyond the first 40 minutes. At the same time this rather suits me! Similar to above, I like the pace of the open, you'll find several set ups for certain strategies in the first 40 mins.

My trading journey: I began to paper trade low float penny stocks back in July 2020. I wasn't very good at it! They are very volatile. I moved to mid-caps in November and took out a BBT lifetime membership. This has been much better, mid-caps are just slightly less volatile and a little more reliable. My big issue now is discipline, and learning to wait for a set up before trading. I am making progress. 

I've tried to trade 1 minute ORBs, and have had mixed results. I don't agree you should be watching 6 x time frames per stock, especially not in the first 30 mins of the market. On. DAS Trader I use a 6-ticker watchlist of 1 minute charts built with the help of Carlos and Brian (Brian especially since he'll be trading the open), and then I've got a main tab where I place trades which uses a 1 min, a 5 min and a daily. But yes, 1 min ORBs are difficult to trade. It's partly the mentality - you're so keen to find this setup, you've got to make decisions so fast, and often you'll end up getting a really crappy entry chasing a stock that looks like an ORB but is already extended. Andrew is superb at it - and with practice and experience, they will become easier to trade. But for now I've stepped back from 1 minute ORBs.

Recently I've had more success trading reversals (and 4 green days last week, a first for me!). I've noticed most days at least one of the stocks on my watch list will flush at the open and sell off strongly for 2 to 5 minutes, first as profit taking creates selling pressure and then as shorts step in looking for their own ORBreakdowns. I don't need loads of time frames to see this happen - 1 minute charts work fine. What goes down must come up: these stocks become extended and find a bottom. Shorts cover, longs step in, and you hit a reversal. If you can find a way to keep stops tight you'll get excellent R:R.

Another strategy I trade is a VWAP break, usually long biased. It works best on stocks green for the day, but which sold off on the open. It also works well for stocks where you missed your reversal entry. They'll come back to VWAP, and often pause at VWAP as people begin to sell positions. One of two things happen here: either it rejects VWAP and sells off again, in which case I don't enter. Or it holds VWAP and continues on up, in which case you can get an entry with a good tight stop just back below VWAP.

I hope this is useful! Good luck and stay in touch, sounds like we're in similar boats!

[MattfromNZ 55]

12 hours ago, Adam Lewis said:

I'm sort of in a similar situation, trading in Vietnam and with the market opening at 9.30pm local time and needing to be up for work before 6am every day and therefore needing to get to bed, I really don't want to trade beyond the first 40 minutes. At the same time this rather suits me! Similar to above, I like the pace of the open, you'll find several set ups for certain strategies in the first 40 mins.

My trading journey: I began to paper trade low float penny stocks back in July 2020. I wasn't very good at it! They are very volatile. I moved to mid-caps in November and took out a BBT lifetime membership. This has been much better, mid-caps are just slightly less volatile and a little more reliable. My big issue now is discipline, and learning to wait for a set up before trading. I am making progress. 

I've tried to trade 1 minute ORBs, and have had mixed results. I don't agree you should be watching 6 x time frames per stock, especially not in the first 30 mins of the market. On. DAS Trader I use a 6-ticker watchlist of 1 minute charts built with the help of Carlos and Brian (Brian especially since he'll be trading the open), and then I've got a main tab where I place trades which uses a 1 min, a 5 min and a daily. But yes, 1 min ORBs are difficult to trade. It's partly the mentality - you're so keen to find this setup, you've got to make decisions so fast, and often you'll end up getting a really crappy entry chasing a stock that looks like an ORB but is already extended. Andrew is superb at it - and with practice and experience, they will become easier to trade. But for now I've stepped back from 1 minute ORBs.

Recently I've had more success trading reversals (and 4 green days last week, a first for me!). I've noticed most days at least one of the stocks on my watch list will flush at the open and sell off strongly for 2 to 5 minutes, first as profit taking creates selling pressure and then as shorts step in looking for their own ORBreakdowns. I don't need loads of time frames to see this happen - 1 minute charts work fine. What goes down must come up: these stocks become extended and find a bottom. Shorts cover, longs step in, and you hit a reversal. If you can find a way to keep stops tight you'll get excellent R:R.

Another strategy I trade is a VWAP break, usually long biased. It works best on stocks green for the day, but which sold off on the open. It also works well for stocks where you missed your reversal entry. They'll come back to VWAP, and often pause at VWAP as people begin to sell positions. One of two things happen here: either it rejects VWAP and sells off again, in which case I don't enter. Or it holds VWAP and continues on up, in which case you can get an entry with a good tight stop just back below VWAP.

I hope this is useful! Good luck and stay in touch, sounds like we're in similar boats!

The first book about trading I read was Andrews book "How to Day Trade for a Living". The second book I read I got from a friend: "The Complete Guide to Pennystocks". I can't remember who the author was, but it was in the vein of Tim Sykes. There are similarities between the trading styles, but also huge differences that to a large degree make them apples and oranges. It was obvious I was going to have to make a choice about what style of trader I wanted to become. Initially I thought it might be pennys. I spent a week or so trying to practice looking for stocks, scanning the news, researching and then trying to make some trades. It became pretty obvious to me that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, that I would need a lot more "help" and education than what this book provided me. Back at work I started watching the BBT pre-market show which prompted me to do a week trial membership of BBT which lead to me to signing up for a lifetime membership a few weeks ago. At the time it felt like a risk, "am I really just going to spend $1200 on something im not even sure about?". I've been back home from work for a week now, been devoting about 6hrs a day to trading and already I am feeling really good about my decision. It seems to me that as long as one has the right temperament for day trading and puts in the work required, this community provides everything you need to succeed. I hardest part is ignoring messages from my friend about his huge % gains on a penny stock trade he made, but I just tell myself that he just hasn't blown up his account yet, and why would I want to trade something that is a tenth of a cent?!

Anyway I've been learning a lot, and I agree that trying to trade 1min ORB's is not the best idea. I have started with the 5min ORBs. I made some simulated market trades on Thursday and some simulated replay trades yesterday. I am going to increase my strategy repertoire over the next few weeks and then decide what to focus on after that, I appreciate the suggestions.

I have been using the daily charts to find levels, but only using 1min and 5min when trading. I'm open to using other timeframes in the future, but so far it seems like overkill.

Thanks man, I would like to keep in touch.

[MattfromNZ 55]

8 hours ago, peterB said:

when i was starting it was my favorite too. unfortunatelly i do not have the statistical data from then but i feel it was a disaster. not because the strategy does not work, but because i was missing the bigger picture and basically tend to trade everything that breaks up/down without any other knowledge. to nail an ORB is harder than it looks, especially the trade management part. so i would recomend you a 3BAR play strategy which is often an ORB or ABCD and is easy to spot and practice in replay mode. The experience with 3BAR plays will get under your sking and you will understand ORBs and ABCDs better too.

I have definitely written off 1min ORBs for now, but have started practicing 5min ORBs. Aiman mentioned the 3 bar play in trade review on Thursday, so that is on the list of things to learn. ABCD patterns as well as I'm coming to realize that these strategies can all complement each other. Yesterday I did my first trading with the replay mode, and I see that there are disadvantages to it, the biggest one is the lack of data from which to obtain your levels. I had one stock where I sold out on the lowest level I could have marked given the data I had, and it just kept on dropping. Then of course there is no level 2 data in replay mode. Even so, I think that it is a beneficial tool as you can still concentrate on the most important thing: price action. Thanks for your suggestions, I will make the 3bar play my next objective.

[MattfromNZ 55]

55 minutes ago, peterB said:

funny thing i was starting with 5 min orbs and recently used 1min orbs with success. it comes with the experience really. the thing with the patterns is that it really needs many hours of practice to get the right feeling for them as over the time you will spot the little details that make the difference between a solid setup and a great setup. it took me 1000 trades to understand reversals. the nice thing about the 3bar plays is that you do not need anything just the candles to trade them. therefore they are so simple to learn and just build proper trade management around them

That's actually something I was thinking to myself yesterday. I can recognize a perfect setup, but what about all those imperfect setups (the majority), how do I know where the line is between something where the setup is good enough to trade and one that isn't? I guess in a simulator you can make those imperfect trades and learn from them.

Edit: Any suggestions on resources to learn 3bar play? I couldn't see anything in the education center of the forum.

Edited January 2, 2021 by MattfromNZ
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[Adam Lewis 64]

13 hours ago, MattfromNZ said:

The hardest part is ignoring messages from my friend about his huge % gains on a penny stock trade he made, but I just tell myself that he just hasn't blown up his account yet, and why would I want to trade something that is a tenth of a cent?!

This is so important! I mean the thing is, he might not blow up his account, and good luck to him. I hope he continues to make huge % gains. The issue is you've decided that penny stocks aren't for you, so you're not even really talking about the same thing. If he told you he was making $thousands running a pizza restaurant, you wouldn't immediately go and try and open your own pizza restaurant, right? Thus it is with trading. Penny stocks and the mid-cap, mid-price stocks ($20-$100) that seem to generally be favoured by BBT are very different things. 

I agree that getting the membership here has been superb (I think I've already made back the lifetime membership fee on BBT low commission CMEG trades anyway!), it's changed how I approach trading. In general this is how the traders journey looks to me:

1. I want to make more money. People make money in the stock market. I wonder if I could do that?

2. Oh shit, look at this on YouTube, these guys make $20,000 a day in 30 minutes trading the stock market! I'll do that! Lambos for Xmas!

3. Shit, I made some money! This is easy!

4. ...Hang on a minute, I lost a bit. Huh. Those guys on YouTube didn't lose any. What's that all about?

5. Ok, this is really hard. Let me go back to a Simulator.

6. This is going to take a really long time to figure out, isn't it. Turns out those guys on YouTube have been doing this for years already! They didn't mention that, they just made it look really easy!

...and after this point, traders divide into two camps. The first camp who wanted some quick and easy money decides it's not worth the hassle, and they lose interest. The second camp accepts this is going to take years to figure out, and that they might continue to lose some money on the way, but commit to finding the persistence and the patience to learn about it.

I've always said in life, whatever you're trying to do - hit a golf ball, speak Vietnamese, trade the stock market - anything is possible, but only if you have persistence and patience. Failure is part of the journey, and you'll need persistence to continue to try despite that failure, and the patience to learn from your mistakes. I've hit thousands of golf balls into lakes, but I learned from my mistakes and can now get round our local 9-hole course in pretty good shape. I once accidentally asked my Vietnamese wife's father if he'd like to take a shower with me (I meant to ask for a toothpick, which in Vietnamese is tăm, but instead got the tone wrong, and asked for a tắm - a shower), but I learned from my mistake! And so I hope it will be with trading. I'm going to screw up many times yet, but when I do I will try to learn from them. With persistence and patience I'll succeed, and not only will my golf scorecard look excellent and I won't have bits of pork between my teeth, but I'll have a very healthy side income to boot!

[MattfromNZ 55]

15 hours ago, Adam Lewis said:

I mean the thing is, he might not blow up his account, and good luck to him. I hope he continues to make huge % gains.

This is the attitude that I have as well. It's funny though, he makes these posts on Facebook to everyone about stock trading, basically implying that you are missing out if your not getting in on this. I found out that he only just recently managed to get his account to up to 25k, and he's making posts as if he's some guru lmao. IMO he is inviting his friends and family to lose money, like he's hawking an MLM or something! Me on the other hand, I dunno if I will EVER post publicly to social media about my daytrading career, even if I do make it big. I will happily give advice to friends and family that ask for it, but only on an individual level.

15 hours ago, Adam Lewis said:

...and after this point, traders divide into two camps. The first camp who wanted some quick and easy money decides it's not worth the hassle, and they lose interest. The second camp accepts this is going to take years to figure out, and that they might continue to lose some money on the way, but commit to finding the persistence and the patience to learn about it.

Maybe there is a 3rd camp who never become aware of the work it will take, they just hemorrhage money until they give up.

Words of wisdom you speak there Adam, I hope that we all have the perseverance to achieve daytrading greatness one day 🙂 

[Adam Lewis 64]

2 hours ago, MattfromNZ said:

Words of wisdom you speak there Adam, I hope that we all have the perseverance to achieve daytrading greatness one day 🙂 

Me too, and that we never post P/L screenshots on social media! 😄 Be quietly successful is my aim.