Book Club - Trading in the Zone June 2022

[Kath 10]

1 hour ago, WearyBear said:

This, for me, is much harder than it sounds. Bad past experiences sometimes seem to rear their ugly heads and cause me to be really really really risk averse,

This concept, I hope is what we will learn from the book..

 

 

W: “When you learn the trading skill of risk acceptance, the market will not be able to generate information that you define or interpret as painful. If the information the market generates doesn’t have the potential to cause you emotional pain, then there’s nothing to avoid.”

A: Seems so simple, right? As a new trader, I understand this to mean that the “trading skill of risk acceptance” will set you free. This is the most important goal/ skill to achieve in order to gain consistency . There’s no other way.  

A:  With little experience to share or discuss, as of yet  I feel what will help me as I grow is this knowing that the skill of risk acceptance is as or even more important than a good strategy. There are many great strategies but few talk  about the  “risk acceptance skill.” Now I know. 

[Miguel Angel 65]

W - "When you've achieved a state of mind where you truly accept the risk, you won't have the potential to define and interpret market information in painful ways." -Mark Douglas

A - Mark wants us to understand that regardless of our education, skill level, experience, or account size, as long as we do not fully accept the risk inherent in trading, we will always see the market as a force that is working against us and means to harm us in psychologically and financially painful ways.

A - I struggled with fully accepting risk when I first started trading in 2017. I was arrogant, prideful, and reckless because I thought that trading was an endeavor that required me to have a risky mindset as opposed to having a risk management mindset. My attitude lead to a huge losing negative equity curve, anger, anxiety and massive frustration which was a reflection of my state of life at that time.  I left trading and reflected on my trading journey at that point and went back to work coordinating real estate transactions with Redfin. But the desire to become a consistently profitable trader was in my blood and after much reflection, mediating, and letting go of delusion, I returned to trading with a much more humble attitude and an open mind to let go of what I thought I knew about trading and to learn from other experienced traders mainly during the PCT bootcamp which has helped me enormously. The first correct idea that I fully embraced is that the market is not trying to intentionally hurt me. I only hurt myself when I don't accept the risk before I enter a trade. I now trade with a $12.50 risk with a hard stop in place that I never move. This has helped me to build confidence, spend more time focusing on what the market is trying to tell me and whether the market information is applicable to the trading plan that I spent months developing and perfecting through PCT. It's not a perfect process, it's very hard work and everyday my goal is to turn poison into medicine in every facet of my life including trading. 🙏

[Susan 111]

Miguel - thank you for sharing and you did wonderful in PCT.  I love this - "When you've achieved a state of mind where you truly accept the risk, you won't have the potential to define and interpret market information in painful ways."  For me - yes I have always been intrigued with psychology, but these type of sentences are the reason I dove headfirst into studying trading psych which I think a lot of people do not get into until they have traded a few years or have suffered a lot of losses.  I like being happy and I knew very early on my mindset, losing and everything I knew was not aligning with trading.  So even in SIM the solution seemed I had to: change or stop.... I chose change and I am glad you did too..... here is to our future as consistently profitable 100% risk accepting traders🤩.  Glad to be in group with you and getting to talk more again:)

[Dan F 73]

Chapter 1

W- The majority of new traders repeatedly have issues executing simple trades

A- Fundamentally trading isn’t challenging. There are only a few major groups of candle & volume formations that are used in trading. Boredom can be one of the main reasons that people enter trades. There are many major types of inconsistencies in trading.  They seem to fall into two camps: abrupt drops and slow bleed offs

A- After find the major inconsistency try to understand them. The biggest issue is not always the first one that you can fix so finding some easy fixes is not a bad away to start. In a media that resonates with you journal, collect numbers, reflect and repeat.

[Norma 33]

Chapter 1

W: “However, market analysis is not the path to consistent results. It will not solve the trading problems created by lack of confidence, lack of discipline, or improper focus”.

A: Analysis helps you to pick a stock in play not to execute the trade. Analysis is only good as long as you have the discipline to follow your rules without making excuses or exceptions for breaking them; and have the confidence and conviction on your strategy (edge).

A: Focusing on my strategy and following my rules has helped me to be more consistent, little by little. Still, I’m a work in progress.

[Susan 111]

Thanks for sharing Dan & Norma.  I liked both of your posts.  Fundamentally trading is not hard & the main issues most traders have cannot be solved by market analysis ( combo of the 2)!  Look forward to chatting:)

 

[Susan 111]

CHAPTER 2 ENTRY - 

W (write) - To prevent the possibility of exposing ourselves to damage, we need to create an internal structure in the form of a specialized mental discipline & a perspective that guides our behavior so that we always act in our own best interests.  This structure has to exist within each of us because the market doesn't provide it.

I have never met a person interested in trading who didn't resist the notion of creating a set of rules. 

A - (analyze what Mark is saying) - All traders MUST have STRUCTURE & DISCIPLINE to their structured rules.  All traders initially fight against this notion.

A - (apply to myself) - I kind of always have thrived in chaos.  I do not break the rules or commit mortal sins, but a little rule bending per say or living and doing things in moderation has always been acceptable to me (at least for the things I was curious to do).  My professional background is one where I always prided myself in truth and honesty; even when it was unpopular, but there was always room to negotiate.  I did not grow up with a lot of discipline from my father and I lived predominately with him middle and high school for precisely this reason.  This has turned out to be a downfall in adulthood as I never really learned structure and discipline; again more surviving & fending for myself in happy chaos.  I was at a point in my professional life where I wanted to learn more about processes and become more disciplined.  I craved it in my health, spiritual life and needed to be able to teach it into my children.  I prayed a lot when I left my last job...God has a good sense of humor as he led me to day trading.... I had no idea that I would have NO CHOICE but to learn to build structure and have discipline.  If I didn't follow my rules; I would earn pain and like Mike says - pain maintains... well it has.... I am not where I want to be, but I am a heck of a lot better than I was (and I have charts to prove it)...lol....I am not sure this all makes perfect sense, but structure and discipline are areas I have grown in and am still growing... these are some of the areas deep down I am the proudest and they still have a lot of growth potential.

I came into PCT - they told me I had to pick a strategy - honestly I didn't believe them on day 1.  I thought I would just buy when it went up and sell when it went down (I mean how hard could it be).... so now you can see how far I have come & that was less than a year ago... On 1 side I wanted rules & discipline, but I was pretty successful and accomplished (in my mind) and I had made it this far in life...was all this change really necessary...wow - this is really making me think back and that is some honest sharing... looking forward to next week:)

S - (share) - here & at our meeting next Thursday at 2pm ET - link provided in 1st thread of this...Enjoy Friday, your weekend and next week until we meet again:)

[Marco 22]

Chapter 2:

W: One of the many contradictions of trading is that it offers a gift and a curse at the same time.

A: Mark tolds us that the market gives you all the freedom you might be searching for. This is what the people want and why so many people start with trading. But people are used to living in a world with rules. And they can not survive in an environment with no rules.

A: I am also used to live in a world with rules. And I like those rules. The reason why I started with trading is to expand the financial borders. So I have to learn to live without external rules. I have to make my own rules and stick to them. I have no problem to make some rules. I did it a lot. For example when I start with sport, learning for an exam and so on. I always made nice plans. But the problem is to stick to them until I reach my goal. This is the most important point in trading for me. I have a nice journal. But its worthless when I stop journaling after some months. I have to learn how I can force myself to stick to the rules I imposed myself.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Marco

[SaskMike 8]

Chapter 2

W: "One of the principal reasons so many successful people have failed miserably at trading is that their success is partly attributable to their superior ability to manipulate and control the social environment, to respond to what they want. To some degree, all of us have learned or developed techniques to make the external environment conform to our mental (interior) environment. The problem is that none of these techniques work with the market."

A: Mark is telling us that people used to controling environments (CEO's, lawyers and others) do not have any influence in the market. For people who have created a career depending on their ability to influence others to meet organizational goals and outcomes, this new reality is very challenging.

A: So...I was involved in public education in Canada for 32 years. The past 11 years I have been in a role of senior managment executive. While not the CEO, I reported directly to the CEO. So, Mark's point about not having any control in the market is a very interesting and highly relateable experience for me. I have nevery been called a control freak! Just...I always pushed to collaborate with (influence) others to ensure we provided the best educational experience for our students. For me, I prided myself in building teams and helping others become better leaders...there's that influence thing, again!  Without a doubt, this hit me like a ton of bricks and I think my understanding this in myself will help me, moving forward. 

Looking forward to our chat and meeting everyone on THursday!

[Chip S 5]

Chapter 2 Forum Entry

W - The freedom is great. All of us seem to naturally want it, strive for it, even crave it. But that doesn't mean that we have the appropriate psychological resources to operate effectively in an environment that has few, if any, boundaries and where the potential to do enormous damage to ourselves exists.

A – Mark is tapping into, I think, one of a lot of our “Why’s”. We all like the freedom that comes along with trading. No boss, we are the boss. We establish our own system that we create with out anyone’s thumb on us. But we are not equipped to understand that the market is the “ultimate thumb”. Even in a “rule-less” environment or especially in this “rule-less” environment we must create rules for ourselves before we endure the damage that changes our psych for quite sometime

 

A – I was no different then what Mark describes. In fact, it was like it was about me. He says, “we agree that rules make sense, but we have no intention of doing whatever is being suggested”. I have this. I knew right away that rules and structured systems were a must when I first started trading. A daily routine, I craved from a past career. So, making a routine was easy. But implementing and actually following my own rules… was so SO challenging. And still is. I still struggle at least once a week with one of my rules. It is a MUST rule. And so common sense-icle and yet I struggle. So reading it at least I know I am not alone. Now I just need to fix it

[Susan 111]

Chip, Saskmike & Marco - very great points. I hope we can discuss them more Thursday. Have a great day☺️

[Dan F 73]

Chapter 2

W. Indicators are only useful if they serve a purpose.  What we get out of indicators varies as how we apply them to trading. Knowing what happens does nothing if you don’t apply it to a trade. It is easy to get analysis paralysis.

A. One of the thoughts that Mark is trying to convey in his book is that more or better analysis doesn’t lead to success.

A. For how broad a subject analysis is, this is how I plan on try to apply it to my trading. I’m going to try not to look into the tea leaves of micro consolidations. Another thing is to define in my trade book what is price worthy of being marked as a level and edit my levels weekly.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Dan F

[Susan 111]

Hey Dan, great quote and observation.  Dr Reid teaches us to minimize all the things on our charts....KISS (keep it simple stupid) is my favorite acronym to apply to trading!  My new strategy I am working on I will name KISS....lol

[mmichael766 0]

Sorry, I am new to the discussion. When and where Thursday is the book chapter review? Would like to attend.

Thank you - Mark

[Susan 111]

Here is the info. It’s also in the 1st post of this thread with some additional info. Look forward to having you ☺️
 

LINK TO NOTES FROM BOOK CLUB ON JULY 7th WITH FORUM POSTING INSTRUCTIONS - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1lXABFIVmVdxFwuvhQwTAV4y6n16rl3B0/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=110050039229114204075&rtpof=true&sd=true

LINK TO BOOK CLUB - EVERY THURSDAY AT 2PM ET - WE REVIEW 1 CHAPTER PER WEEK - meet.google.com/sat-khuv-rbh

If you need anything please feel free to contact me - [email protected]