****Trigger Warning**** Trading and Racism

[rddad 0]

TLDR: The reaction to a controversial (even uncomfortable) subject should NOT be "if you don't like it, leave"

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Hey Bear Bull Traders,

RD here. I've been a member for several months. I love this community. I enjoy the sector insights that Jarad shares. The premarket list that Carlos and Norm create have helped me super-charge my success.  Love those guys. The real-life session trading by Andrew and Brian have given an insight into the actual practice of executing trades (and that too has helped me tremendously). And all the other members whose contributions would make this list too big to read are amazing!

I don't say much in chat or at all in forum, but something happened today that I just need to address.

During the live premarket show someone pointed out that calling Chinese stocks "Chinese Trash" was not racist. As a Chinese American, I've long ago decided to not take offense to that term, but I've had to devote personal time to actually process the term "Chinese Trash" as a non-racist statement. I think we can make a reasonable assumption that a lot of other people don't have to do that when they here something like "My-Nationality Trash". I've had to process that statement because my initial reaction to hearing it was that someone was attacking me for how I look. Having said that I understand that "Chinese" can refer both to the country or the people.

I love the spirit of inclusion that BBT brings. I think BBT must continue to have an inclusive spirit since the community continues to grow. Specially, as new members come in from YouTube. I love freedom and have championed it myself. So here I am putting on my Snowflake mask ;-) I don't think we should ever say, "If you think *insert reason*, you should not watch this show or be part of this community." Honestly even if it is merited you shouldn't say that because it is not inclusive and those are not growth words. At the moment you say those words you don't give room for people to think and reconsider the term "Chinese Trash". It probably makes them dig in. And it makes the community give off a less than harboring nature.

I'm sure also that there will be more Chinese people trading stocks in the future too, as there are quite a lot now. I'm sure I'm not the only person of Chinese descent in the member roll.

So that's my piece. I know that this could trigger some people so please don't ban me. I day trade for a living and I need this community to pay the bills.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

RD

[NikkiB 22]

Let's not take this community there ok?  I already miss Andrew saying F*** (in his wonderful way of saying it like foooook) when something doesn't go his way like he used to a year and a half ago when I joined.  Let's just trade and learn together and not turn this place into where you're heading with this post.

[derick424 1]

heart make of glass

[rddad 0]

*Meh* I'd say a heart of gold because I make the money. 😁

[Sapperstien 74]

Oh. My. God. What did I just read. Its because most chinese ADR's are chinese shit. They lie on their financials all the time. This is even more well known in small cap communities more than BBT and most people steer clear of them for that reason. Go watch The China Hustle documentary. The CCP will take advantage of US equities market investors anywhere they can. 
Just because you can find it within yourself to be able to justify an argument for racism doesn't mean it actually exists and that people are saying it with racist intent. 

[rddad 0]

Let's segue back to the actual subject matter which is inclusion and growth. Inclusion will be profitable for BBT. It doesn't make sense to tell people to leave or not watch the show. I don't see why that is so controversial. When it comes to creating an inclusive community that the BBT sales copy touts (yes its right on there: inclusion), its just NOT a good idea to say "leave or do not watch the show" when you feel offended. What's the point of putting all this stuff on youtube anyway?

The cheapest recurring monthly revenue package is I think $99/month. That's a big chunk. And they're looking to convert people over from YouTube. Why do you feel the need to say "leave or don't watch the show?" The point is to pack people in. Don't tell people to leave, especially a well-heeled population (read: anything to do with Asian Americans). Isn't BBT trying to make money also outside of trading payouts?

@Sapperstien, I say this as a free-market champion, the most genuine definition of racism has to include historical victimization not the wishy-washy (Tucker) Carlsonesque argument that the world is now victimizing the winners. So no, racism is never justified.

Furthermore, BBT wants more money (which it should get because its fucking genius) so quit telling people to leave. Alright?

 

[Sapperstien 74]

22 minutes ago, rddad said:

Let's segue back to the actual subject matter which is inclusion and growth. Inclusion will be profitable for BBT. It doesn't make sense to tell people to leave or not watch the show. I don't see why that is so controversial. When it comes to creating an inclusive community that the BBT sales copy touts (yes its right on there: inclusion), its just NOT a good idea to say "leave or do not watch the show" when you feel offended. What's the point of putting all this stuff on youtube anyway?

The cheapest recurring monthly revenue package is I think $99/month. That's a big chunk. And they're looking to convert people over from YouTube. Why do you feel the need to say "leave or don't watch the show?" The point is to pack people in. Don't tell people to leave, especially a well-heeled population (read: anything to do with Asian Americans). Isn't BBT trying to make money also outside of trading payouts?

@Sapperstien, I say this as a free-market champion, the most genuine definition of racism has to include historical victimization not the wishy-washy (Tucker) Carlsonesque argument that the world is now victimizing the winners. So no, racism is never justified.

Furthermore, BBT wants more money (which it should get because its fucking genius) so quit telling people to leave. Alright?

 

I never told anyone to leave. They're shitty stocks that just happen to be domiciled in China. No racism as badly as you'd like it to be there. Yea lets bring Tucker in this... Who else? If you really were a free market champion then you'd get why "go somewhere else  that's more your tribe" would make sense.  You vote with your dollar. 

The real issue is you posting a thread begging for attention, which you're getting. 

 

 

[rddad 0]

You said: "go somewhere else  that's more your tribe" would make sense.

Inclusion is on the sales copy. So be inclusive.

Also I've made it clear in the original post using the term "Chinese Trash" is not racist because it can refer to either country and people.

Edited June 26, 2021 by rddad
confusing reference

[Sapperstien 74]

16 hours ago, rddad said:

You said: "go somewhere else  that's more your tribe" would make sense.

Inclusion is on the sales copy. So be inclusive.

Also I've made it clear in the original post using the term "Chinese Trash" is not racist because it can refer to either country and people.

That doesn't apply to you since you only posture as a free market proponent but aren't actually one. So you can stay here and impose your beliefs on how everyone else should treat you instead. 

[rddad 0]

@peterB, @Sapperstien, @derick424, @NikkiB: Thank you for the replies. You all have valid points. I'm not a perfect individual. If I appear to be selfish in some of arguments, its because at some point earlier in life I thought that selfishness was a virtue and I guess some of that is still around.  I understand that now that it isn't a virtue. And Sapperstien honestly I'm just venting because I knew if I didn't I would have made some crap trades in the later part of the week. When writing that, I expected 0 people to reply to this post.

I gotta tell you though, I'm loving life. It might be the wine I'm drinking right now  (Sundays are for drinking) but I mean, I'm in my 30s, my net worth is ~420K USD. Of that 420K, 120K is in a large ass margin account so that I can play with 480K USD to attempt to make ends meet. With my current R I'm able to do just that on most months of the past half-year. I take a hybrid approach of quantitative analysis and discretionary trading. My greatest success, during the pandemic, had come from a BHOD in the first 30 minutes of trading where the premarket volume get shaken out of their positions before the price action exceeds the day's opening level. There's quite a bit of special cases to that setup, and that setup has become more scarce for me recently. I have in the past, shared my positions in chat using that setup. I'm sure it has helped some people out. I qualified that setup with lots of quantitative analysis, back testing, and paper trading. I was greatly encouraged by the setup when I saw that BBT had a similar setup in the Rising Devil, and Fallen Angel.

Everything that I have now, I've had to work for. I came into trading, because in pre-pandemic I crashed into the pickup in front of me after I fell asleep at the wheel. I fell asleep because I worked 16 to 20 hour days with 2 hour commutes for a local startup so my body just one day decided to turn the lights out when there was a lull in traffic. (The court case was acrimonious, but amazingly the plaintiff never got anything from me.) I was taxing my health and I knew that I couldn't keep my work habits into my 40s.

Life is so different now. I've got all the time in the world to scratch my butt and stare into the sky after I'm done with trading.

As my success grows, I think I'm only more inclined to buy myself into a more expensive tier of BBT and whatever other services they have. They currently don't like trading-signal services, but if they ever decide to make one, I might have to try that.

I just get turned off when I hear people say "if you don't like it, leave." And I don't have to qualify it further than that.

I am genuine about this wish though: You guys have a green week.

Edited June 28, 2021 by rddad
typo

[pptom 1]

Beyond disappointing and jarring to see people react with more venom when someone is clearly being affected by racially charged rhetoric.

It is quite obvious to me that a Chinese-American would find the term "Chinese trash" deprecating and insulting, especially considering the recent rise of anti-Asian sentiment (and violence) in the US. This is not about being "woke" (whatever that word means), but about showing and maintaining mutual respect. Modern Chinese politics marked by authoritarianism do not define China or its complex socio-cultural identity that spans millennia. All that is being asked of you is that you make that distinction and criticize the former without showing a uniform disdain for the latter. 

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Matt Callaway 5]

I'm hoping this can be worked out one way or another. The intent that is trying to be brought out is not there. 

[Roberto 10]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:42 PM, Sapperstien said:

They lie on their financials all the time. The CCP will take advantage of US equities market investors anywhere they can. 

While I agree that there's shifty behavior on the Chinese side, these stocks are being cleared for American exchanges by Americans, quite happy it appears to take advantage of US equities market investors in their own ways.

My solution, view both sides with suspicion. 

[KyleK29 260]

First, I don't think these types of posts are unnecessary or unwarranted. It helps the community grow and improve itself by being open to this type of feedback.

This part is not so much directed @rddad .. but to some others in the thread or anybody who may have been "triggered" by a thread of this nature going up.  I do see how people may find the "Chinese Trash" comment to be offensive. It's important to not shrug that off as just people being overly sensitive - communication by nature is made up of sender and receiver. The sender may not provide all the information (assumes the receiver has the info or can perceive the info, like the context), and/or the receiver may not receive all of the information correctly (preconceived bias, focus, noise, etc.). So someone that's selectively listening may hear that, not understand the message's implied context and take it as calling Chinese people trash, that wasn't the original messages intent, but it's how it was received by an end-user .. this is more easily controlled when you're not talking to hundreds of people at the same time. Even things like tonation (joking / sarcasm) may not translate properly to other cultures.

It's very important for people to understand that. A message sent  != a message received. Good communicators understand this rule and are able to put themselves in another's shoes to try and fill in where the communication broke down.

 

On 6/24/2021 at 8:02 AM, rddad said:

I don't think we should ever say, "If you think *insert reason*, you should not watch this show or be part of this community."

 

I agree with this. It's easy to just say "you should leave," but true customer service is having the ability to listen [to the issue], understand [confirm the message], reflect [construct an appropriate action], and reply [appropriately]. This was drilled into me when I took my second job when I was 16 years old working for the San Jose Arena Management (SJ Sharks) and it's served me well.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by KyleK29

[Norm 46]

Guys, I would have posted sooner had I seen the post. I'm sorry I didn't, especially knowing that this is a topic brought up from an incident that I either created, or at the very least was involved in.

First, let me state unequivocally that any form of insults have no place in BBT, including, but not limited to racism, sexism, bullying, political harassment, or personal insults. I'll get into more details, but I can assure you that when using the term mentioned above there was no animosity, hatred, or bigotry toward the people of China.

The use of the term is strictly in reference to how companies in China are allowed to regularly falsify accounting reports, scam investors, and deceive people out of their hard-earned savings for their own personal gain. Also, the Chinese government has no problem destroying companies and their investors to make political points - see DIDI this week, or Jack Ma's companies etc. If you dig into this topic, even just scratching the surface, you'll see this has happened dozens of times over the last 20 years as Chinese ADRs have become popular on US exchanges.

Those that have been here for a good amount of time know that when we discuss groups of stocks that we aren't fond of we often combine the description of that category with the word "trash" or "garbage". A couple that instantly come to  mind are "low float garbage" and "NYSE trash". This has to do with how they move and can be difficult and/or dangerous to trade. We say it in the most colorful/strong way possible in order to strongly get our point across. About a year ago I got a big thank you note from several members that decided not to *invest* in $LK because of research they did after I warning I gave like this. I can't in good conscious refrain from speaking openly about something I feel may be harmful.

All of this having been said, I hear and understand where @rddad is coming from and the last thing I want to do is have someone even question if what I say is coming from a place of malintent. So, I ask all of your help to try and create a term instead of "Chinese trash" to boldly get the point across about concern for fraud in these companies, while removing the potential of someone finding it personally insulting.

Finally, there is no room here for anything close to "if you don't like it, leave". I know I've not said that to anyone and I don't remember seeing it, but I very well could have missed it during a busy premarket show. Maybe it was said on YouTube, in which case I would have muted that person. (there's lot's of spammy or unpleasant things said on YouTube that we mute people for) 

Thank you all for the input and for making this community what it is.

Respectfully,

Norm