What is considered "one trade"?

[Blackbc 3]

Hi All

I am preparing to go live and as part of the process I am dialing down the amount of trades I take per day. I have a self-enforced rule of 7 trades per day.

So ... yesterday NIO was on my radar. I took 1 long on the pre-market (my limit includes only 1 trade pre-market if obvious momentum is there). I was looking for NIO to go long on the open so after 1 minute I jumped in, got stopped out twice, but persevered as the L2, volume, and time/sales were all indicating a positive direction. I chased it up to the resistance and then stopped trading. I was very green on the day and happy.

...Then I looked at my transactions and there were about 25 entries with the various stops, partials, and adds on the pull backs whilst chasing the ORB.

My question is - would these 25 entries be considered "one trade" since it was part of the same ORB? (I am aware there would be comms on each add). 

Cheers

Chris

[Bryan W 50]

I feel like this is a personal question and will have many different opinions. 25 entries, depending on your account size and position size, can really start to cost you quite bit in commissions. Are your entries technical, or are you just jumping into it because it started moving slightly in your direction? Could you have made just as much by holding your initial entry longer? Looking back, can you justify all of those entries, or at least half? 

I like the way Thor plans a second entry... They won't necessarily be large, but as a "freeroll", he won't lose "realized" money on it.

If you are getting totally out of a position, and then entering again, I'd call that a new trade. Adding in, well, if you're entering with initial position sizing, I'd probably consider that a new position. Regardless of all this, if it's working for you, and the comms aren't eating up too much profit, then keep doing it! Find your niche and what works for you...

[Blackbc 3]

Thanks Bryan. Some days I feel like I am in control and other days the green mist just comes over me. Today was just gambling and I am so annoyed - even though I made (virtual) money. Thors "freeroll" is a sound tip and I will start investigating this ...

[Adam Lewis 64]

I have this issue as well. I'm with CMEG, currently charging $2.95 per ticket for trades below 1,000 shares. A typical 'trade' for me might involve scaling in through 3 or 4 different purchases then 2 or 3 partials out again. All looks lovely until you figure out you just smashed through almost $30 of commissions! And yet scaling in is (for me, not sure for others?) an important element of risk management. Difficult square to circle! One idea is just wait until I've got enough to fund an IB account getting round PDT and then (I think?) you only pay per-share, no minimum commission, so 200 shares in four scale-ins costs the same as 200 shares bought in a single lump trade. 

[Blackbc 3]

This is useful thank you Adam.  In some ways CMEG sounds like a good stepping stone to an IB account as it would enforce discipline by making me feel the pain when I overtrade. Currently I am using SIM emulating a 25K PDT account - I am going to switch to 5 or 10k and drop my risk amount proportionally.

 

By ticket do you mean that everytime a partial is taken it would cost $2.95? - if this is true then wouldn't a CMEG account favour a Scalping approach?

[Adam Lewis 64]

1 hour ago, CHRISTOPHER BLACKBURN said:

This is useful thank you Adam.  In some ways CMEG sounds like a good stepping stone to an IB account as it would enforce discipline by making me feel the pain when I overtrade. Currently I am using SIM emulating a 25K PDT account - I am going to switch to 5 or 10k and drop my risk amount proportionally.

 

By ticket do you mean that everytime a partial is taken it would cost $2.95? - if this is true then wouldn't a CMEG account favour a Scalping approach?

Yes it's $2.95 per partial. I'm also paper trading using DAS. It's quite helpful that it shows my commissions as I trade. You really need to trade size to make it worthwhile, you're not going to place $50 trades when you're spending a minimum $6 per round trip. Good idea to paper trade until you've got a very solid strategy I'd say!

[Blackbc 3]

thank you - I am experimenting now premarket on TLRY with 10k equity - it looks like pre-market would not be a sensible strategy as no stop-loss to save my account ...still 225 in the green on 4 tickets ($12 commission) - but I had to buy 5k worth of shares .... 

[Bryan W 50]

5 hours ago, Adam Lewis said:

Yes it's $2.95 per partial. I'm also paper trading using DAS. It's quite helpful that it shows my commissions as I trade. You really need to trade size to make it worthwhile, you're not going to place $50 trades when you're spending a minimum $6 per round trip. Good idea to paper trade until you've got a very solid strategy I'd say!

Are you not using the BBT discounted route? https://bearbulltraders.com/brokers/#CMEG

[Adam Lewis 64]

7 minutes ago, Bryan Walquist said:

Are you not using the BBT discounted route? https://bearbulltraders.com/brokers/#CMEG

I didn't know about this! Can I get it even after I've signed up? Is that no minimum share size? Superb news if so, bit of a game changer!!!

[Bryan W 50]

2 minutes ago, Adam Lewis said:

I didn't know about this! Can I get it even after I've signed up? Is that no minimum share size? Superb news if so, bit of a game changer!!!

You should be able to email them I believe... even though the promo code says 2018, it's still valid.

[Blackbc 3]

Thank you Bryan - I will use this !!

My experiment was positive today - but the market was kind - traded CCL at the open - total 40 tickets - 120 comms - which interestingly is cheaper than the IB comms? (312)

[Bryan W 50]

3 minutes ago, CHRISTOPHER BLACKBURN said:

Thank you Bryan - I will use this !!

My experiment was positive today - but the market was kind - traded CCL at the open - total 40 tickets - 120 comms - which interestingly is cheaper than the IB comms? (312)

I've never had comms that high with IB, especially using tiered! I generally have less than 35 cents per ticket... Occasionally, on something like ROKU or BA I've seen over $1, but I've also seen as low as 11 cents.

 

[Blackbc 3]

aaaah - that explains it. I was just using the default Commission field in the Das account window and assumed it was IB .... 

[Bryan W 50]

Just now, CHRISTOPHER BLACKBURN said:

aaaah - that explains it. I was just using the default Commission field in the Das account window and assumed it was IB .... 

The default in DAS is $1 per ticket before "regulatory" fees. You can request DAS to try and match your comms scheme once you connect to a broker, but the only way to see the true comms number is signing into your brokerage account.

[Adam Lewis 64]

8 hours ago, Bryan Walquist said:

You should be able to email them I believe... even though the promo code says 2018, it's still valid.

I've emailed them and asked for a switch. Like I say, if I can get 50c tickets then it's massive, basically means I can move back into low level live trading without it being too expensive. $3 a ticket, you need to be clearing $100 profit each trade to make it cost effective. 50c a ticket, the whole thing becomes much more affordable. I'll let you know what they say on the email anyway.