Self-control Issues. I really like to punch myself in the face.

[KSFO 2]

Hello folks,

Couple weeks ago I posted a thread about "59% ORB accuracy rate but couldn't make money"... I fixed that problem by study the stocks the night before with daily and weekly charts. So I only go after stocks that hitting significant levels on weekly and daily. For example this week was SPCE, NIO, NKLA. In addition, I choose to monitor only 2-3 stocks during the open, took significantly less trade, and I no longer have two trades going on at the same time during the open.

However, I feel like I am trading against myself this week. Statistically speaking, my winning odds decrease significantly after 10 am. I am well aware of that but I just couldn't help myself. I never did drugs growing up but I guess this is what similar to get hook on drugs. One single misstep after 10 am, lose some money, got emotional, then keep on doing some more stupid things. I am speechless, I hope someone could put a shocking collar on me.

For instance I lost $730 on one single trade for SPCE, I got that level marked and I was so convinced that it will reverse. Unfortunately, it didn't. And unfortunately I used "hope" as a strategy. When the market showed me that I was wrong I simply couldn't switch course.

I have been a risk averse person for my entire life. I have logged hundreds of hours as an airplane pilot and. So I like to say that I have what it takes to make split second decisions under pressure. However, I am seriously doubting myself at this moment. The journal shows that I am an extreamly emotionally unstable person.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by KSFO

[cjsimon07 16]

I'm not sure if you're looking for help or just needed to vent after a bad trading day, but here's my 2 cents:

Lower your share size until you are able to completely take emotion out of it. Meaning, how much can you risk or make per trade where the dollar amount doesn't affect your decision making. For me I had to go all the way down to risk $20 per trade. At that amount I could focus on the trade and my decision making without getting emotional or worried about P&L. You have to focus on the process until it become second nature. I like your NKLA trade (maybe not the third entry even though it worked), but what was the setup you were trading on the other 2? Always identify the setup you are trading before you take a trade. 

Try using hard stops. You should know your risk whenever you enter a trade. If you are not disciplined enough yet to use mental stops, then set hard stops as soon as you enter a trade. You can always re-enter a trade if you get stopped out on an early entry or bad fill. 

I also make notes about each trade right after I take it. I do this on paper then look at it later when I do my journal. Sometimes I miss trades because of this, but it really helps me see where I am at mentally. After each trade I write down what the set up was, why I took the trade and why I managed it the way I did. Then I make note of anything I would do differently. By creating this habit I am better able to identify mistakes I am making and try to correct them. Am I taking trades just to take trades? Maybe it's time to step away. Am I not 100% focused or am I making emotional decisions? Then I definitely need a break. Sometimes I just close my eyes or look out the window for a minute. Sometimes I go for a walk. Occasionally I just shut it down for the day. 

Spend sometime in the psychology section of BBT. There is some great info in there. In my opinion, it takes a lot more time and effort to work on your psychology than to learn how to trade or about trading set ups. It sounds like you know you are over trading and taking bad setups. Now you have to figure out how you can correct that behavior. 

If nothing else, try to learn from your mistakes and put the bad days behind you. A fresh start and a positive attitude go a long way. Tomorrow is a new day, make the best of it!

 

[Brad 18]

You know all of the bad things you want to avoid: FOMO, revenge trading, chasing, averaging down, random entries, oversizing, not obeying stops, choosing the wrong stocks etc.

Part of what makes avoiding these things really hard to do is that there is a downside to avoiding each one. I think when someone starts avoiding all of these things they may feel like they are getting worse before they get better and it takes a lot of the excitement out of it (even if we tell ourselves that we're not in it for the excitement).

Obeying stop losses may mean more red days in the beginning, although they will generally be small red days. That needs to be seen as progress. Win percentages may go down. Some of your other weaknesses may be exposed. But at least you will have a clearer picture of what you need to work on and you can improve your entries, work on patience, stock selection and pattern recognition and reduce reliance on luck.

I similarly think of myself as being risk-averse, but when I'm trading I sometimes get scrappy after a loss and break rules. Sometimes that works out and my equity curve is intact but I know that behaviour is not sustainable because there will be times when I will have to eat an oversized loss. I had a pretty decent month but I'm delaying increasing my size because I realize I had about 5 days where there was too much good luck in my results.

 

[Bailey Nevener 83]

KSFO,

This is indeed a tough situation to deal with.  I am very familiar with this struggle as well as several others on this site.

The reality is, you have gone past a point where you are now distorting your own view of yourself, which means you need to take a step back.

In my opinion, keep it simple.  Try doing ONE thing right at a time.  That means, set easy to follow rules, and don't look at the P and L.

A rule I would FOR SURE implement: One trade a day.

It takes away all arbitrary overtrading notions.  If you take a trade, once you get out, watch the stock for 5 more minutes, and turn off the application.

Wait the 5 minutes so you can see the trade play out after you take it, to know if you played it right, but after that turn it off and log your results.

If you can do this, then you will be able to build that resilience back up.  Right now, you can't be a sustainable trader, even if you are profitable.

Just my two cents.  Good luck.

[KSFO 2]

On 8/7/2020 at 10:40 AM, Bailey Nevener said:

KSFO,

This is indeed a tough situation to deal with.  I am very familiar with this struggle as well as several others on this site.

The reality is, you have gone past a point where you are now distorting your own view of yourself, which means you need to take a step back.

In my opinion, keep it simple.  Try doing ONE thing right at a time.  That means, set easy to follow rules, and don't look at the P and L.

A rule I would FOR SURE implement: One trade a day.

It takes away all arbitrary overtrading notions.  If you take a trade, once you get out, watch the stock for 5 more minutes, and turn off the application.

Wait the 5 minutes so you can see the trade play out after you take it, to know if you played it right, but after that turn it off and log your results.

If you can do this, then you will be able to build that resilience back up.  Right now, you can't be a sustainable trader, even if you are profitable.

Just my two cents.  Good luck.

Appreciate the inputs! I have been on the simulator since last Monday. In all honesty I think you are absolutely right. I need some evidence to show myself that I could be a sustainable trader.

[Abiel 475]

Having talked to many traders, and in my own experience, taking a "trader circuit breaker" helps to interrupt bad habits. Sometimes traders are trapped in a vicious feedback loop of bad trading => bad results $ => bad mindset => bad trading and stopping trading helps to halt that pernicious loop. But you really need to take a step back, no trading even in sim. Is a detox therapy from trading.

Then some clarity comes and you will see clearly what you were doing wrong. So take some days completely off trading, then use your time watching other traders recaps, watch / re-watch some success webinars, review your rules and your journals. 

Then come back to sim and follow up your discipline, make a daily checklist of your rules and follow up your rules compliance every single day. You will want to define a period of acceptable rules compliance and discipline, that could be a week, some weeks, a month, etc. before coming back to trade your account. Just be mindful that old bad habits don't disappear from overnight. The same is with good habits, it takes some time to get rid of bad habits and it takes some time to build good habits. Your goal here is to use your rules to govern your trading behaviours and practice those rules and behaviours until they become an automatic response, a second nature. Then, after your reach your goal of rules compliance for the period of time defined by you, go back to trade your account, starting small, and define rules to increase your risk/trade or share size. 

And don't believe  those telling you that sim doesn't work. We build bad and good habits in sim and we need to come back to sim to get rid of the bad habits built in sim. If you are not able to be disciplined with your rules in sim you won't be disciplined trading your account.