Topics

Hi, most people here use DAS, including Carlos (I used to but don't anymore). If I was choosing one or the other then I'd choose DAS but Bookmap complicated matters for me. It depends what kind of trading you're doing, if you're a scalper like Andrew then DAS is better. The executions are better so those split seconds count as you're entering at the point of the market where you often expect it to go immediately. This is what DAS is going for, quick executions. IMO the executions in TWS are fine if you're looking for more point to point moves but aren't as quick as DAS. In terms of charting TWS is missing some features that DAS has that people here use such as highlighting bigger orders on Level 2. However, this isn't a strength of DAS either vs other providers (as I mentioned their focus is execution speed) for example things like volume profile is incorrect in DAS because they use a less data intensive method for the benefit of speed rather than do it accurately (I asked them to do it properly but they refused and said they don't intend to fix it). Therefore depending on what you're using you may be fine or you may have issues with charting (with both) which is obviously a difficult question to answer for a newer trader. DAS has replay which is also helpful for a new trader but BBT now has a free replay on trading terminal so it's not as big an issue now vs when I started. DAS hotkeys are more customizable, things like fixed risk hotkeys are missing in TWS. So DAS has the edge throughout but the reason I went to TWS from DAS is Bookmap, imo it helps tremendously read Time & Sales and Level 2 and my decisions as a result are much quicker (far outweighing the benefit of DAS execution speed for me, also should point out DAS was around 200-250ms delay for me vs I think 50-100ms for some NA traders because I'm based in Australia), many members here use bookmap. It's lacking education content in BBT at the moment (but I believe is coming) because Thor is the only mod who uses it and has just started. I'm using bookmap to chart in the shorter timeframe and make decisions. DAS therefore became a $200 a month (stocks and futures) platform just for execution and I don't see the value for the type of trading I do (not scalping). I only use TWS for a little bit of charting and execution really, I won't necessarily continue executing in TWS as it doesn't give me everything I want but doubt it would be DAS either. As I said most people here use DAS so I will say my opinion isn't the consensus opinion.

I'm new to day trading and the BBT community, and I'm just getting DAS Trader Pro set up on my Mac via parallels. @Carlos M., I saw a video you just made about setting up TWS, and I was wondering if you find it to be a good tool to use for day trading, or if you think DAS is still preferable and why? TWS runs natively on Mac (whereas DAS needs parallels and a VM), and it's easier on the eyes, but if things like speed, fills, functionality and stability/reliability go in favor of DAS, then the tradeoffs are more than acceptable. Curious for people's experience and thoughts here.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Andrew-Aziz/author/B01JAQ5R66?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true  

It can be representative of everything except how you react when real money is on the line. Most people will react in some kind of way and so then it becomes difficult to gather accurate stats on your strategy which then spirals as you struggle to find your strategy issue without accurate data and your psychology issues about money make you do things because you doubt your strategy more and more as you lose and have no inner belief that it works because you don't have the data backing it up. If you deal with everything except the money aspect in SIM then at least you have the crutch of knowing the only thing stopping you is money psychology issues, if you don't then you'll be dealing with a wave of issues that all overlap and you'll struggle to dissect what the problem is. Speaking as someone who had patience issues, are you treating SIM like a game for learning (you don't need to take a trade to watch how the market moves) or because you're impatient waiting for your setup? If you're trading really small size (with a goal of only $250) then it's still a game to most, couple of dollars here or there who cares? (unless you're in such money situation that you need it which presents it's own issues), if you go higher then you have the issues I mentioned above. Trying different setups in SIM is fine, like maybe your trying Thor's pivots and Aiman's reversals and John' HOD etc to see what you like best. Those are genuine setups you can gather data on, if you're just pressing trade for the sake of it and not gathering genuine data then I'd question your patience. I did the same thing so I'm not criticizing just asking whether you're being honest with yourself (because I wasn't). You said slightly but what about comms when trading small size (it's a bigger proportion). It's a typical new trader mentality to think about the winnings, what about the potential losses? If you lose $250 (or more) a month instead what does that do to you? Can you afford it or will it take you out of the game? Many come in under capitalized take their hail mary  shot and exit trading, that's why the statistics of failed traders are so bad. I can't speak for you personally but the typical trader experience is live too early, pay market tuition, either push through it because they have the patience and the capital or exit the industry. It takes some a year, it takes some 3 years (or longer - there was a post on here a couple of months ago that took someone 4 and a half years to get back to breakeven) to get profitable and so you have to be realistic about what losses would do to you as well.  This is only my perspective but if you spent a long time in SIM and failed then you'll pay education of BBT/DAS or whatever and that'll be your cost. If you go live and fail then you'll pay BBT/DAS and market tuition. If you go live an succeed then you cover the costs but given the statistics against you then on average you'll increase your cost, why can't you for a period of time only take your setup in SIM (and just watch everything else or take mental entries and stops), you don't need live to see if your setup works you need live to see whether you have money psychology issues but for me that's the last step because I have my working strategy to fall back on so I know what I'm dealing with. If you can't wait for your setup in SIM then I'd question your psychological readiness to go live. If you can only treat SIM as a game then you'll treat immaterial amounts as a game, if you trade material amounts then money psychology issues will make life difficult (as I spoke about above) and imo that's asking for trouble on a "slightly" green strategy. Martin

Hi Martin, thanks again for your answer, this is high value input :). I had been aware that one should only trade a proven system life, but the reasons you listed and the importance of that trust are new and important aspects to me. As criteria for going live, I as well thought of going green for a certain period / average. But I have some doubts on this. I wonder if paper trading can be representive for real. I have one setup yet, that I like, that is simple, and I am consistently (slightly) profitable on, while I don't think that it's developed to it's full extend yet. But since I am simulating and learning, a try a lot of other set ups as well, I sometimes take unrealistic risks, I just do stupid thing intentionally, mostly to learn and to expiriment. And as one sure thing is that by this my sim account will never go green ;). Therefore I wonder if it makes sense to go live with just one proven setup, do one or two trades a day with it, and meanwhile continue simulating, switching back to the paper account for all risky, doubtful, unsecure stuff. One reason to want this is to prove my first set up is right. But also I am hoping to make just $250 a month, to maintain DAS and BBT fees. I invest a lot in my learning, especially time but also money, and I would feel much better if I could at least get flat by these. Would be great to hear your thoughts about this. Cheers Daniel