I love how this thread popped up again just recently, it's great timing for me. Almost exactly two years ago I started trading, lost my job, closed my accounts, found a new job, had a flood, bought a new home, paid off all my debts... It's been a crazy two years. This morning I fired up my renewed DAS subscription for the first time in two years. I made $100 in sim 🙂 I never quit. I took a long break, and while I didn't want to, I needed to. Learning to trade is stressful. I wasn't out of work that long and I probably could have kept my account open and let my debt sit for a while to keep going, but I knew that it was cause me way more stress on top of the stress of trading. Because of that hard decision I'm now in a much better financial and mental place to go back. My account is funded double what it was before, I have no debt, savings, and a stable Work-from-home job, which allows me to trade most mornings and transition right to work. When to quit trading? For me the answer is "never" because I love it, I want to get better at it, and eventually I want it to be all I do. For others that answer might be different, but if you're in it for the right reasons then my response is the same: Never. You just have to keep asking yourself: "what do I need to change to succeed?"

Exactly Jason, I agree that a trader never should keep repeating mistakes. It's ridiculous how many times it took me to learn to accept a loss and stop out. But once I kept seeing that is the ONLY way to trade, you just do it and never look back. You can be wrong half the time with your trades, but those times you are correct, usually your R/R will be greater than 1:1 so statistically you WILL make money. Can you live off that is another story, currently I treat it as supplemental income. Also your time in the chair will increase your call outs and setup accuracy where you can only get better and reading the market. Imagine an accuracy of 2/3 trades correct with R:Rs greater than 1...

Hello Fellow Traders, After reading the email from Andrew about “When to Quit Day Trading” I wanted to offer my perspective as I am in almost the same predicament as the trader Andrew referenced. My current trading career is (1) planned live trade, 2 unplanned live trades due to not realizing I was not in simulator, and about 4- or 6-months simulator depending on if you want to count the 2 months I spent just watching charts. I am an active duty United States Marine who is about to transition from the military after 22 years of service. I originally planned on becoming a Forensic Accountant upon retiring from the military. I have acquired my bachelors in accounting, Master in Forensic Accounting, and achieved a Certification as a Certified Fraud Examiner; however, after being introduced and reading Andrew’s book I have decided to invest all my time to becoming a day trader prior to my retirement from the military in December 2019. I found myself continuously asking the same question as the trader referenced, “Is there any criteria to determine when to quit trying to learn day trading?” I believe the answer to the Traders question is, “When you as a trader and your family no longer have the desire or ability to accept failure as a possibility.” As long as you and your family have the desire to learn, work, and sacrifice for this career than you should pursue it. During my time in the service I have been away from my wife, son, and daughter more than I have ever wanted to be. I currently work away from where my family lives. Monday through Thursday it is easy to focus on Day Trading and learning; however, due to connectivity issues in the hotel rooms, I spend at least 10 hours on the weekend watching the Mentorship webinars, classes, reviewing my journal, and developing the next week’s trading plan. I have found the best thing is to communicate with your family on why you are doing what you are doing and get their acceptance. My family views my time spent learning to day trade as a way that they will get to see me more in the future. They honestly have become more upset with me when I don’t put forth my full effort on the weekends to learning Day Trading, as they have bought into the fact that becoming successful in this business will allow me to spend more time with them. I could easily retire from the Marine Corps and become a Forensic Accountant Intern; however, this career path would still keep me away from my family, so we (My Family and I) have decided that $x amount is worth risking to learn to Day Trade. If I lose that amount, then oh well it was worth it and I will move on to something else; however, if I don’t then my family and I will have a great life day trading while getting to spend more time together.

I was browsing Farnam Street when this article caught my attention: What You Can Learn from Fighter Pilots About Making Fast and Accurate Decisions about the OODA loop, a practical concept designed to be the foundation of rational thinking in confusing or chaotic situations, developed by strategist and U.S. Air Force Colonel John Boyd for fighter pilots. OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. Boyd intended the four steps to be repeated again and again until a conflict finishes: 1: Observe The first step in the OODA Loop is to observe. At this stage, the main focus is to build a comprehensive picture of the situation with as much accuracy as possible. A fighter pilot needs to consider: What is immediately affecting me? What is affecting my opponent? What could affect us later on? Can I make any predictions, and how accurate were my prior ones? A pilot’s environment changes rapidly, so these observations need to be broad and fluid. And information alone is not enough. The observation stage requires awareness of the overarching meaning of the information. It also necessitates separating the information which is relevant for a particular decision from that which is not. You have to add context to the variables. The observation stage is vital in decision-making processes. 2: Orient Orientation, the second stage of the OODA loop, is frequently misunderstood or skipped because it is less intuitive than the other stages. Boyd referred to it as the schwerpunkt, a German term which loosely translates to “the main emphasis.” In this context, to orient is to recognize the barriers that might interfere with the other parts of the process. Without an awareness of these barriers, the subsequent decision cannot be a fully rational one. Orienting is all about connecting with reality, not with a false version of events filtered through the lens of cognitive biases and shortcuts. Including this step, rather than jumping straight to making a decision, gives us an edge over the competition. Even if we are at a disadvantage to begin with, having fewer resources or less information, Boyd maintained that the Orient step ensures that we can outsmart an opponent. 3. Decide Having gathered information and oriented ourselves, we have to make an informed decision. The previous two steps should have generated a plethora of ideas, so this is the point where we choose the most relevant option. Boyd cautioned against first-conclusion bias, explaining that we cannot keep making the same decision again and again. This part of the loop needs to be flexible and open to Bayesian updating. In some of his notes, Boyd described this step as the hypothesis stage. The implication is that we should test the decisions we make at this point in the loop, spotting their flaws and including any issues in future observation stages. 4. Act While technically a decision-making process, the OODA loop is all about action. The ability to act upon rational decisions is a serious advantage. The other steps are mere precursors. A decision made, now is the time to act upon it. Also known as the test stage, this is when we experiment to see how good our decision was. Did we observe the right information? Did we use the best possible mental models? Did we get swayed by biases and other barriers? Can we disprove the prior hypothesis? Whatever the outcome, we then cycle back to the first part of the loop and begin observing again. Boyd developed this strategy for fighter pilots. However, like all good mental models, it can be extended into other fields. So I googled OODA and Day Trading and our good buddy Brett N. Steenbarger, author of The Daily Trading Coach, came up. Right in his website there is this 11 page article "Trading as Mental Warfare" (a new window will open to download a .doc file). In this article, Steenbarger explains how trading, like the battlefield, offers an environment typified by risk, danger, and uncertainty, rewarding the efficiency of mental processing. The successful trader is one who can rapidly observe market conditions, orient himself, integrate information into effective decisions, and quickly act upon those decisions. So, lets watch Top Gun again!

Hey guys, I've been successfully using the new Squawk feature since it came out, but sometimes it's a bit overwhelming hearing multiple voices talking at the same time. To a point where you don't hear anything being said, and leading to good call out being missed! So I went out and found a Chrome Extension that moves specific tab audio to the Left or Right. This way, when both presenters are talking, you can easily focus on whoever you want to! https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/audio-pan/ogfgeonandkipeojlkmhbcbebpghmlfe For those on Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/soundfixer/

12-24-19 AIS 0800, 4 hours, 6/10 PAT: Spread.... Bias.... Trade Management Notes: My Challenges are as important as my Rules RAD Basically No trades.... +.2R paid commissions.... lol Cons: Pros: Playbook Trade: Merry Christmas Notes: Rs: +.2R

Tuesday 12/24/2019 I had a well-being score of 5.5/10 this morning. Battling the flu but winning, Exactly at the open my platform freezes. Restarting didn't help so it may be the feed so I just waited it out. While waiting I switched to SIM since I don't really trust the feed anymore. The feed came back about 3 minutes after the open. I made three similar trades. Entered the trade, got stopped out and then watch the stock run (in my direction) without me. I have an issue of not wanting to trade a stock that stops me out. I need to learn to watch it for a re-entry. Everyone enjoy the holidays and your time off!!

If you open a TD Ameritrade account you can use their on demand feature for free very similar to trading sim. I find the biggest problem with this type of practice however is you really don't know if the stock your practicing on was really in play that day. If you cherry pick it from a known in play day you kind of know whats going to happen and trade it with unfair bias. I find trading live in sim is the best experience.

Hi everyone, Want to share my thoughts on creating a trading system. We all have goals. I think it is great. The problem is that we focus on goals without having a clear plan how to get to them. Goals are just directions. I think it is very important to focus on creating a trading system with clear steps and directions. Focus on improving that system and improving your identity as a trader. I would love to share my system, and I hope it will be helpful for some of you. Let me say a few words about myself. I started to trade a few years ago. Like many of us joined Sykes and traded penny stocks. Then I tried five more big and famous chat rooms. I was on a rollercoaster. One of my friends mentioned to check Andrew's room back in January. After watching a few videos I decided to join them. Got a life membership, and now I am here making money, but whats most important I am growing with this community. So let go back to my system... Here is a step by step what I do on a daily basis. 1. Business plan - with out a plan you just a swimmer in the ocean. It's scary and crazy. Be a captain of your own ship. But you gotta build that ship first! 2. Preparation checklist - no matter if you are a scalper or a swing trader, you can not trade a stock without knowing a float, RVOL, reading a catalyst, knowing ATR and more. 3. Having a playbook - have your setups with data collected on them. I am constantly adding charts of stocks in play to my playbook journal. Track your setups. 4. Risk management - is a KING or QUEEN not sure, always trade based of a risk. 5. Trade management - in order to know how to scale in and scale out you need to collect data. Are you good at one and done, or getting out by 10%. 4. Daily report card - track your performance. Trading is a performance job. You gotta know your mistakes, weakness and strengths. 5. Journaling - #1 thing for improvement and tracking all data. Reflect and review. Repeat day in and day out. So on every topic you have to create a detailed system, and put everything together in a way that it will be easy for your brain to navigate. You brain does not like complicated things and always trying to find an easy way. Make it easy and fun. Create good habits since the day one. Building yourself as a trader will help you to improve your personal life and the other way around. I suggest to read "Atomic Habits" by James Clear on this topic. This is a long journey, and I suggest you to take it seriously. Be a professional. Ask your self a question, "What would a professional trader do?" There is only one way to success, compound of a hard and smart work. Thanks!

Be aware of your mindset. Yesterday was a beautiful trading day, lots of stock with clean patterns and I believe a lot of members had a good day. I had my worst day ever. -1500dollar plus commissions.. this is big for me. This after some green days with ok trading where I got 200 a day average which I had set as a daily goal. so why did I get such big loss. my mindset was not good , why is.. well.. a couple of days ago I broke up with this woman I had been seeing. before market opened I noticed she had send me some messages which threw me off guard.. at that moment I knew my mindset wasn’t good but I ignored it. I did after all had a winning streak... Market opens and I start trading with bigger shares then usual, 1000 shares each time no matter the stock. Get bad entry’s and getting stopped out on pullbacks. I use mental stops but in stead of looking at the chart and accepting it for what it looks like I just checked my p&l... The more I traded the less feeling I got and didn’t recognize any patterns anymore. i mentioned in the chat room about the loss and got private contacted by John, just a small talk helped me to realize what I was doing and I didn’t trade anymore. Thanx a lot for contacting me! You probably saved me from an even bigger loss. anywayz, what did I lean from this. Awareness is a key ingredient for good trading. That and a good entry. When I make a few loosers I must immediately take a step back, do a recap on the loosing trades to find out if it was my own fault or just the probability of a good setup going wrong. Needless to say, about 80% was my own fault, What I will change right now is going back to smaller size, I may try out hiding my p&l as this has messed with me before aswell also on winning trades, all you really need is the charts. Be more mindful during trading, how? I’ll add meditation to my premarket ritual, I did before and it felt good when I did.and If I don’t get the entry I wanted, I must accept it and don’t jump in, another acceptable entry point often appears again and I will wait for it. Less profit is always better then a loss. In a way I feel grateful for this loss too. It made me realize a few things which I thought I knew but... And thanx again John, being contacted by another trader got me out of my hulk mode. i love the chatroom! Best trading investment to date. grtz tommy

I've had several setbacks in my journey to becoming a full time day trader. I sim traded for 4 months, finally gained some momentum, reached a level of sim trading that was consistently profitable, made some small gains in real trades to start building thicker skin trading real money... Then I lost my job. It wasn't because of trading, but it did result in me needing to empty my trading account. It's amazing how long it takes to establish something that can go away in an instant. I didn't blow up my account, but it felt the same. Two months of unemployment later and I was back in an office working a consulting contract for more money than before, but a lot less time. In the office by 8am. No time to trade or even watch the chat. No point maintaining a DAS or TI subscription. No point even studying or reading because I know myself enough to know I won't retain it if I don't get to practice. I didn't quit. To me quit means never going back. I prefer "when should I reevaluate my approach?" I think that is a question a day trader should already be asking themselves every day and every minute because that's the nature of trading. So I re-evaluated my approach. I knew my contract was 6 to 9 months. 6 to 9 months of no trading, so I adjusted my trading plan: 1. Find a job with enough flexibility to allow me time in the morning to trade; 2. Rebuild my trading account. 3. Re-develop my long term plan to reach full time trading. It took 6 months but I found the new job. I started 4 weeks ago and for the last week I've been able to join the chat through the open. Right before I started my new position a pipe burst and flooded our home, so now we're dealing with that, which will definitely delay my account funding again, but I'll deal with the setback. The upside of the flood is the owner of our home wants to sell it, and offered to sell it to us. Another setback financially, but long term a good thing. I didn't quit. I don't want to quit. Personally for me I've decided that day trading tics all the boxes of what I want to do to earn a living. I know 90% of traders fail, and I know many of the reasons why. I think self-reflection is THE key skill a trader needs, and unfortunately I don't think many people who approach day trading appreciate that. Self-reflection counteracts self-deception and reinforces self-reliance. To me, the time to quit is when you've been honest enough with yourself to accept that you either don't really want to be a day trader, or, more likely, you fell in love with the idea of day trading and found the work too daunting. Like any career, it isn't for everyone. But if it is for you, don't ask yourself when you should quit, ask instead "what do I need to change to succeed?"