How do I short during SSR?

[WOWSERS 1]

Hi, team. 

I can't figure out how to short during SSR using DAS + CME Group. When I try, DAS throws warnings:

• Short marketable limit order disabled due to SSR!
• Short market order disabled due to SSR!

The only thing that works is setting a sell limit order at a specific price. But if the price is moving down fast, this is impractical. By the time I enter the order, the price has already moved below the order price. Any advice or suggestions? Thanks!  

[nassarsyed 82]

Did you figure this Out? Can’t tell you bowl many trades I have missed 

[Daniel Thomas 22]

On 8/23/2018 at 4:04 PM, WOWSERS said:

Hi, team. 

I can't figure out how to short during SSR using DAS + CME Group. When I try, DAS throws warnings:

• Short marketable limit order disabled due to SSR!
• Short market order disabled due to SSR!

The only thing that works is setting a sell limit order at a specific price. But if the price is moving down fast, this is impractical. By the time I enter the order, the price has already moved below the order price. Any advice or suggestions? Thanks!  

Try re-configuring a hotkey that sells on bid PLUS (rather than minus) .01 cents.  

I personally don't have a hotkey for this, but I presume it would work.  The way I personally do it is one of two ways:  1) I click the ask within the level 2 montage, it populates the price box with that number, then I hit the sell button.  2) If the spread is wider than a few cents, and I want in below the ask, I click the bid within the level 2 montage, it populates the price box with that number, then I click the up arrow once or twice (extra step compared to the previous version), then I hit the sell button.  

When you click a number in the level 2 montage, your order box will automatically default to a "limit" order, and the price box will reflect whatever number within the montage you clicked.  You can also double click anywhere in the chart, and that price will populate in the price box within your montage.  Lots of ways to get it done...  Practice makes perfect.  It's a lot easier to submit these types of orders (shorting SSR stocks) with in my Interactive Brokers account, because I don't have to jump through these hoops (like I do with CME), but where there's a will -- there's a way!  

Good luck; STAY GREEN!  

Edited November 2, 2018 by Daniel Thomas

[Fernando Samora 11]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Thomas said:

Try re-configuring a hotkey that sells on bid PLUS (rather than minus) .01 cents.  

I personally don't have a hotkey for this, but I presume it would work.  The way I personally do it is one of two ways:  1) I click the ask within the level 2 montage, it populates the price box with that number, then I hit the sell button.  2) If the spread is wider than a few cents, and I want in below the ask, I click the bid within the level 2 montage, it populates the price box with that number, then I click the up arrow once or twice (extra step compared to the previous version), then I hit the sell button.  

When you click a number in the level 2 montage, your order box will automatically default to a "limit" order, and the price box will reflect whatever number within the montage you clicked.  You can also double click anywhere in the chart, and that price will populate in the price box within your montage.  Lots of ways to get it done...  Practice makes perfect.  It's a lot easier to submit these types of orders (shorting SSR stocks) with in my Interactive Brokers account, because I don't have to jump through these hoops (like I do with CME), but where there's a will -- there's a way!  

Good luck; STAY GREEN!  

I have a hotkey for covering shorts on the ask +.05 cents, so fat I have not yet encountered any problems with CMEG.

Andrew commented on a post recently that CMEG is aware of the issues and are looking to fix it asap (in the upcomming weeks). 

[Michael 0]

Quote

Try re-configuring a hotkey that sells on bid PLUS (rather than minus) .01 cents.  

I personally don't have a hotkey for this, but I presume it would work.

This does, in fact, work.

E.g., ROUTE=SMRTL;Price=Bid+.01;Share=2000;TIF=DAY+;SELL=Send

[KyleK29 256]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:17 AM, Michael said:

This does, in fact, work.

E.g., ROUTE=SMRTL;Price=Bid+.01;Share=2000;TIF=DAY+;SELL=Send

Just adding that I agree, it does work.

Not sure if this is a backend issue or if it's been like this and we've just never noticed it. Being the recent market trends, a lot more stocks are being tagged as SSR.

The equation "Ask-.05" just returns a price. Brokers with smart routers (IB, etc.) will place the order on the proper side on an uptick and fill on an uptick for SSR. So placing an order in way below the bid is fine, it just has to trigger and then have an uptick that fills it.

In the DAS simulator, it's not doing this. If you put an order in below the BID on an SSR, it rejects it outright.

I tested in 5.2.0.31, 0.33, and 0.34. Same thing, so I think it's on the backend. Whether it's a bug or not, I'm not sure. I just don't recall ever having these rejections.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by KyleK29

[Daniel Thomas 22]

On 11/20/2018 at 10:17 AM, Michael said:

This does, in fact, work.

E.g., ROUTE=SMRTL;Price=Bid+.01;Share=2000;TIF=DAY+;SELL=Send

I figured it would.  Thanks for confirming... 

As far as it being a back-end DAS issue...  It may be, but it's something pertaining to the CMEG version of DAS only ("Traders Elite Pro").  I say this, because I don't have the same issues when I use DAS with my Interactive Brokers account.  With IBKR, I can just use my normal hotkey (sell at bid - .05 cents).  

My guess is CME has some sort workaround that allows US residents to clear through the various brokers they work with, without subjecting us (US residents) to the PDT nonsense; and this "work around" somehow involves them recording/documenting the order under their entity (as opposed to our entity/name), so the process is seamless...  I may be completely wrong, though, so don't quote me...

If this is the case, they probably disable the ability to place an order lower than bid (when on SSR), so they don't end up on the figirative hook for an order they cleared (filled for us), that shouldn't have gone through.  As we all know, you can still short a stock on SSR, you just can't hit the bid when doing so... And disabling our ability to do so inadvertently is probably a safe bet on their part (again, I'm speculating, and could be completely wrong)...

Anyways..  glad the hotkey proposal worked..  when there's a will, there's always a way!  Lol...

STAY GREEN people!